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Yesterday was lower-body day at the gym. I did leg extensions, leg presses, leg curls, seated knee raises, and more. The workout felt good. I had taken the day off from my last lower-body workout because I felt like I was overworking my legs, so it was nice to do some more exercise.
When I got home, I went for a moderately-paced four mile run on the roads in my neighborhood. As the weekend marathon training runs increase in length, it’s going to become important for me to add a half-length run mid-week.
My legs felt good all day yesterday, and into the evening. But when I got up this morning, both quads were sore, as was my right shin. “Hmmm,” I thought. “Hmmm.”
I drove to the gym, turned on my iPod, got on the treadmill, and walked for five minutes. “Hmmm,” I thought. “Hmmm.” My right shin was definitely sore. After my warmup, I ran for two minutes at 5mph (my 50% level), one minute at 6mph (my 60% level), and one minute at 6.5mph (my 70% level).
But then I stopped.
My right leg was becoming increasingly sore and my stride was all out of whack in order to compensate. It wasn’t just my shin. My right calf felt tight, and both quads hurt. (Not in a good way. And yes, I stretched for several minutes beforehand.)
“That’s not good,” I thought to myself. I also thought, “Crap. I want these two miles. I’ve been talking trash to Mackenzie, and I need to get every mile I can in order to beat his distance this month.” I’m a competitive guy, and it’s going to bug me if Mac clobbers me.
But I’ve also struggled with injuries in the past, and I know how much they suck. So I got off the treadmill and drove home. May 1st and zero miles logged, when I’d hoped to have 2.25. Still, I’d rather get the 8 miles in during marathon training this weekend.
There’s a larger issue here, of course, and that’s the likelihood that I’m overtraining. This has been a concern for the past week or two, and today just makes me worry more. I don’t know enough to pick what I should cut out. I do know that the running is more important to me personally than the weight-lifting. If I were forced to choose on my own, I’d cut the lower-body weight-lifting immediately.
But I have a pool of readers I can come to for advice. What do you think? Do you have experience with this sort of problem? If you were in this situation, what would you do?
Mac
22 responses so far ↓
1 grimsaburger // May 1, 2008 at 7:47 am
Ugh, I have been there. I’ve been running regularly for a year and a half now. The first six or eight months I approached it all wrong–I tried to run ever longer distances without working up to them with run-walk routines. So twice I ended up having to cut the running altogether for three weeks or more with various IT band and knee problems. Since I cut back to running three times a week (two 2-3 mile, one 6-7 mile), I have muscle soreness, but no tendon weirdness, knee pain, or shin splints. Part of that is just that I’m getting stronger, but most of it is that I have plenty of rest time. Yoga or biking on off days, but nothing that will make me sore in my legs.
Also, when I was starting to move beyond the 2-mile wall, there were crap running days that I couldn’t do anything about. They just happen sometimes.
I’d drop the lower-body weights and make sure you’re getting in enough healing time between runs.
2 grimsaburger // May 1, 2008 at 9:05 am
Saw this article on weights & running over on RunnersWorld.com, it may be something to think about.
3 Anne Keckler, Personal Trainer // May 1, 2008 at 9:26 am
I’m not a runner, but I doubt you’re overtraining. Keep in mind that most “overtraining” is really just undereating and undersleeping!
Have you thought about your shoes? Are they the right type for you and your activities? How old are they?
I’d start with the shoes, and then go from there.
You might want to rest the legs a bit for at least a few days and see if that helps. After that, though, I see no reason to give up weightlifting. (But I would give up the leg extensions, since they are hard on the knees, and only do single-leg presses, or else you can compromise your form on the leg press machine and end up hurting your back.)
4 Eric Nagel // May 1, 2008 at 9:32 am
I’ve felt like I’ve overtrained a few times - usually when I’m doubling-up workouts. My muscles can take it, but other parts revolt on me. As Anne said, I’m sure a lot of it was undereating (or, not the right foods) and undersleeping (6 hours isn’t enough for me).
As for your sore legs, have you looked into Evolution running? It takes a good month to get used to, and the first time you do it you’ll go about 1/4 mile and barely be able to walk for 2-3 days (rips up your calves), but after that, you’ll be able to run mile after mile and feel great.
5 bethh // May 1, 2008 at 9:51 am
I had the same thought as Anne: are you using the right shoes? Are you sure? I know Portland’s got a few stores that specialize in proper shoes for running/walking. The only one I know of for sure is in NE up on the Alameda ridge (maybe Fremont & 40th? I moved a couple years ago and my mental map is getting tattered).
6 J.D. // May 1, 2008 at 9:55 am
The thing that really stands out from the advice here, though, are the comments about undersleeping. I am sleep-deprived right now. It’s a combination of being behind on blogs and the recent release of Mario Kart. I’m exhausted. Can that really have an effect on how my muscles feel while running? I could see feeling tired and mentally run-down, but would my muscles actually hurt?
7 macdaddy // May 1, 2008 at 10:05 am
J.D., I don’t want to beat you if you’re hurt. That’s no fun. Take some time to figure things out and then we can beat each other up over who runs more, faster, etc etc etc.
8 TosaJen // May 1, 2008 at 10:43 am
It sounds like you have shin splints. I tended to get those until I started doing some serious calf stretching after warming up and after running. If you google shin splints, you’ll find plenty of suggestions for dealing with them.
Don’t do yourself damage. You want to be fit forever, so there’s no hurry and no point in injuring yourself so that you CAN’T do it forever.
9 Troy // May 1, 2008 at 10:45 am
Leg extensions: bad.
Leg presses: good - but squats are better.
Leg curls: bad - deadlifts are much better.
10 Lucas // May 1, 2008 at 11:11 am
To address JD’s question: Yes, lack of sleep can make your muscles hurt.
Exercise damages muscle. Then your body repairs the affected muscles, making them stronger than before. A lot of this repair work is done during sleep. So if you don’t get enough sleep, your body doesn’t get enough time to adequately recover from exercise. Any additional exercise you do while in a severely under-recovered state will be harder and hurt more. The same thing can happen when you don’t enough or don’t eat well.
I know you’re a big fan of the Body for Life thing, but you should think about ditching all of that machine junk for squats and occasional deadlifts. Running is very hard on your body, and adding tons of reps on machines that don’t build muscle optimally and don’t really build tendon/ligament strength at all doesn’t help the situation. People think of machines as “safer,” than free weights but they’re not. In the long term, free weights will prevent injuries while machines will encourage them.
11 Garrison // May 1, 2008 at 1:33 pm
I agree with most the comments thus far.
I too initially questioned shoes and since you have been logging more miles than the past I’d think seriously about the quality and age of your shoes.
As far as sleep goes absolutely yes sleep is very important. World class runners tend to schedules that involve little else but eating training and sleeping with calories and sleep being the limiting factors in how much training they can accomplish.
For your weight training I’d maybe suggest getting away from the formal weight lifting for your lower body and switch to some hill workouts. This works your muscles like weight lifting with the emphasis placed on toning and not adding mass. In addition you will continue to keep your heart rate up and add miles on your legs. Last it will prepare you for higher speeds on level terrain later on.
Finally I think TosaJen might be on to the source of the pain. Shin splints are very common especially when increasing millage in amateur runners. Things that can help deal with shin splints are:
-Shoes make sure they are of the right type and not over worn
-Rest, ultimately your legs need to heal
-Anti-inflammatory medication like ibuprofen can help reduce the pain and help the healing process
-icing using the dixie cup method. Fill a small dixie cup with ice and invert it over your leg and massage your shins and calves with the ice for 15 mins or so 2-3 times a day after working out
-walking backwards, can be dangerous on a treadmill use slow speeds, but walking backwards helps stretch out the muscles that cause the pain in shin splints.
Good luck dealing with the pain and potential injury JD. I’m working through mine right now too.
12 pam // May 1, 2008 at 1:50 pm
JD- the fact that you hurt a day after your run and not during your 1/2 long makes me think you are sore, and not injured. Also, people can usually pinpoint the pain in an injury; it would be pretty remarkable to injure your shin, your calf, your knee and both quads all in one day(short of being hit by a car!). Stretch, rest, vitamin I. Up your workouts slowly, alternating hard and easy days (sounds like you were doing two hard workouts in a row).
And don’t worry too much about Mac - we walked this moring and he is golfing this afternoon, so doubt he’ll get in any running mileage!
13 Susan // May 1, 2008 at 5:30 pm
Great advice here. I initially thought shin splints, but I think I have to agree with Pam simply because you have general soreness all over your legs.
Lots of gentle stretching (no bouncing), drink water, rest, do a longer warm-up, and take it easier the next time you workout.
If it gets worse, you may need to rest longer and reevaluate.
Hope you’re back to your regular running workouts soon!
14 greenman2001 // May 1, 2008 at 8:15 pm
First of all, I think you’re asking the right question: “what is this pain telling me?”
Second, with all respect to Dr. Pam, it’s impossible to know whether JD’s pain is preceding an injury or not (particularly in the absence of an exam). The story I don’t want to read on this blog is the one that begins, “I should have paid attention to what that strange pain was telling me.” What’s true for someone’s else’s body may not be true for yours. You want to be cautious about ignoring something that doesn’t feel right.
Third, and last: I don’t know whether this pain is “just” soreness or whether it’s an early warning of an injury or whether it’s shin splints; but I do know that the only problem taking a few days off will cause is your potentially not being able to run in this marathon or bike in this biking event. This is a no-brainer for me: take a few days off. Buy yourself a new pair of shoes, see if it makes a difference. Try running without weight training and weight training without running: try to isolate the source of the problem. Pain is a gift: it’s your body’s early warning system. Respect it. Try to remember that your true goal isn’t this stupid marathon: it’s lifelong fitness. Whether you run in the marathon is completely irrelevant.
And if you’re going to do squats, for God’s sake do ‘em on the Smith machine.
You’re such a good goal-setter, JD: why not set for yourself the goal of getting 8 hours of sleep a night? Do you think there’s a potential downside to being adequately rested?
15 alex // May 1, 2008 at 8:50 pm
I have been just starting to exercise again too, and I had almost the exact same experience as you. My knee bothered me for a few days and I ignored it until it bothered me so much that I couldn’t do my workout.
Short term, I took Aleve for 24 hours to reduce the swelling over a consistent period of time and I stopped running on treadmills entirely. They absorb waaay too much impact and wreak havoc on your knees and shins. I am not a fan at all. When I ran outside, the pain wasn’t so bad that I couldn’t run, but it definitely hurt, so I iced my knee after I finished and it felt significantly better the next day after I did that.
I don’t like not knowing how many calories I burn (at least at the moment), so I decided to opt for the elliptical over running outdoors. I haven’t had any significant knee pain since the switch.
I also agree that it’s important to buy new shoes. Don’t give yourself an excuse to wait, it will make a huge difference. I will be buying some as soon as I go back home and start running again.
16 JosephG // May 2, 2008 at 7:00 am
Soreness is a good thing. It means you broke down the muscle fibers and when they repair you will be that much stronger. If you continue to stress the muscle and don’t recover, injuries are likely.
I recently ran (and won, to add to my credibility) a 10 mile trail race. I rarely race trails so the following day I was so sore I had to lean against the wall just to make it to the bathroom. I still went for a jog of 40 minutes. My fastest mile was 8.10, when I usually do sub 7 on my easy days. I didn’t do anything hard for a week. Nevertheless, I still ran, easier.
Have you ever considered agua-jogging. My girlfriend runs for a Div 1 cross country team and they do hours of cross training in the pool. Instead of the 2.5 mile run you were scheduled for and bagged, I would recommend 30 minutes of agua jogging in the pool.
Finally, I agree with Lucas, ditch the lower body weights. Running will make you stronger for running.
Good luck, I enjoy following your progress.
17 Tiffany // May 2, 2008 at 8:16 am
I just took a two-week break from working out because of a ‘medical complication’ and I’m sucking wind at my workouts now. If you can keep up some amount of training, maybe swimming, that puts less strain on your legs I suggest doing it.
18 Anne Keckler, Personal Trainer // May 2, 2008 at 2:20 pm
I’ve read all the comments, and decided to respond once more.
Machines are not “bad,” per se. But they are not optimal, either. They have their uses, but you would be better off with squats and deadlifts and lunges. There’s absolutely no reason to ditch the weightlifting.
PLEASE don’t ever use a smith machine! It limits your range of motion and can cause more injury than squats, without giving you the benefits of squats! (Okay, twist my arm a little and I’ll write a post about this.)
As for what garrison said regarding “toning without adding mass,” I’d have to ask him to explain in scientific terms what he means by that. When most people use the word “tone” in the fitness sense, they generally mean to gain some muscle and/or lose some fat, so that they have a lean but slightly muscular look. Again, I could write an entire post about this (or perhaps even a book! Ha ha!). Garrison seems to be suggesting some other definition, though, and I’m curious to know exactly what he means.
19 Garrison // May 3, 2008 at 7:48 am
What I ment by toning without adding mass is tailor your workouts towards light weights with many reps. Heavy weights with few reps builds more muscle mass. Lighter weights with fewer reps will add strength but not as much mass and when you are going to be running a marathon and doing endurance bike races carrying extra, less efficient, mass is not really a good goal.
By lifting heavier weights at fewer reps you stimulate fast-twitch muscle fibers. These are used for explosive activity and are generally the fibers that were developed when you see big professional athletes and body builders.
By lifter lighter weights at higher reps (but still close to failure at the end of the set) you simulate slow-twitch muscles. These are used for endurance based activities. Your muscles tend to not get as big with slow twitch fibers (so less mass) but you still gain strength in the endurance world.
Thats really all I ment and since I know JD is working on some endurance based events I figured fast twitch muscle development is not the greatest way to train. Generally you still want a mix of both but I’d focus on endurance training.
20 Anne Keckler, Personal Trainer // May 3, 2008 at 3:44 pm
Garrison, it’s important to remember that a person cannot gain new muscle fiber without a surplus of calories. There is no need to fear that J.D. is going to get all huge and bulky with his current training program, especially if he is dieting to lose fat.
If one works on strength and endurance at the same time, endurance will usually win out over strength, anyway.
The American College of Sports Medicine asserts the position that muscular strength and endurance develop simultaneously over a wide range of repetitions (3 to 20) provided that the resistance exercise is performed at a high intensity (to the point of muscle fatigue). For strength, an intensity of 60-70% of 1RM is recommended, and for endurance, an intensity of 50-70% of 1RM is recommended. Not a huge difference there!
When you speak of mass, however, you seem to be talking about hypertrophy, oran increase in the size of the muscle fibers. Hypertrophy requires a higher intensity, the same number of reps, and a higher caloric intake.
Power is something else, altogether, but you don’t seem to be addressing that, so I’ll leave it alone for now.
As an aside, resistence training does not alter the percentages of type I and type II muscle fibers.
21 Pam (not Dr Pam) // May 5, 2008 at 5:01 pm
JD, I used to get shin splints and increasing the incline on the treadmill to 1% helped a lot. And make sure you stretch, and that you’re wearing excellent shoes. You’re doing a great job!
I think that you probably shouldn’t do runs (or at least do only a short run) on days when you do lower body training.
22 MITBeta @ Don't Feed the Alligators // May 7, 2008 at 5:06 am
I agree with the others with respect to the weight training: there’s no need to be doing so many individual exercises. I’m of the philosophy that any weight exercise should involve as many muscle groups as possible, as well as closely mimic a real activity. How many times have you ever had to lift anything with just your foot?
Stick to squats and deadlifts and nix all the other stuff.
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